The Spiritist review — Journal of psychological studies — 1858

1.Where did you go after leaving Earth? - I still remained here.

2.What was your condition here?
- Under the aspect of a lovely and dedicated woman. It was a simple mission.

3.Did that mission last long? - Thirty years.

4.Do you remember the name of that woman? - It was obscure.

5.Does the importance given to your work please you? Does it compensate the sufferings you had to endure?

- Why would I care about the material work of my hands? What is important to me is the suffering that has elevated me.

6.What was the aim of the admirable drawings you have produced about planet Jupiter, through the hand of Mr. Victorien Sardou?

- The aim was to inspire in you the desire to become better.

7.Considering that you frequently come to this Earth, which you inhabited many times, you must know very well its physical and moral states in order to establish a comparison between Earth and Jupiter. We would ask you to enlighten us about those points.

- I come to your globe only as a spirit. The spirit has no longer material sensations.


Physical State of the Globe


8.Is it possible to compare Jupiter’s temperature to that one of our latitudes?

- No. It is smooth and temperate; it is always the same whereas yours vary. Think of the Elysian Fields, whose description has already been given to you.

9.The picture given to us by the antiques about the Elysian Fields would be the result of an intuitive knowledge which they had of a superior world, such as Jupiter, for example?

- From the positive knowledge. The evocation was in the hands of the priests.


10.Does the temperature, like here, vary according to the latitude? - No.

11.According to our calculations, the Sun must be seen by Jupiter’s inhabitants as very small and, consequently, provide very little light. Can you tell us if the light intensity is like that on Earth or much weaker?

- Jupiter is surrounded by a kind of spiritual light, related to the essence of its inhabitants. The gross light of your Sun was not made for them.

12.Is there an atmosphere? - Yes.

13.Is Jupiter’s atmosphere formed by the same elements as of Earth’s atmosphere? - No. Men are not the same. Their needs change.

14.Are there water and seas in Jupiter? - Yes.

15.Is water formed by the same elements as ours? - More ethereal.

16.Are there volcanoes?

- No. Our globe is not tormented like yours. Nature there did not have its great crises. It is the dwelling of the blessed ones. Matter almost does not exist there.

17.Do the plants have analogy with ours? - Yes, but they are more beautiful.


Physical State of the Inhabitants


18.Has the conformation of the bodies of its inhabitants a relationship with ours?

- Yes, it is the same.
19.Can you give us an idea of their height, as compared to the inhabitants of Earth?

- Large and well proportioned. Larger than your largest men. Man’s body is like the form of his spirit: beautiful when he is good. The covering is worthy of the spirit: it is no longer a prison.


20.Are the bodies opaque, diaphanous or translucent there?

- Some have a given property; others have another, according to their purpose.
21.We understand that, with respect to the inert bodies. But our question refers to the human bodies.

- The body surrounds the spirit without hiding it, like a translucent veil which covers a statue. In the inferior worlds the gross covering hides the spirit from his neighbors. But the good ones have nothing else to hide: each and everyone can read from the heart of the others. What would happen if it were like that here?

22.Is there a difference of sex over there?
- Yes, that is always the case where there is matter; it is a law of matter.

23.What is the basis of nourishment of its inhabitants? Is it animal and vegetal like here? - Purely vegetal. Man is the protector of the animals.

24.We were told that part of their feeding is extracted from the environment, whose emanations they inhale. Is that true?

- Yes.
25.Compared to ours, is life duration longer or shorter?

- Longer.
26.What is the average life span?

- How to measure time?
27.Could we take one of our centuries by comparison?

- I believe it is more or less five centuries.
28.Is the development of the infancy proportionally faster than ours?

- Man preserves his superiority: his infancy does not compress the intelligence neither does aging extinguish it.

29.Are men subjected to diseases?
- They are not subjected to your illnesses.

30.Is life divided between sleep and wake? - Between action and rest.

31.Can you give us an idea about the several occupations of men?

- I would have to speak a lot. Their main function is to encourage the spirits who inhabit the inferior worlds, so that they can persevere on the good path. Not having misfortunes to alleviate within their own element, they look for them where they do exist: they are the good spirits who support you and attract you to the good path.

32.Do they cultivate some arts there?
- They are useful there. Your arts are toys which distract your pains.

33.The specific density of the human body allows man to transport himself from one point to another, without staying attached to the ground, like here?

- Yes.
34.Is there the boredom and displeasure with life?

- No. The displeasure with life originates from the disregard of oneself.
35.Being the bodies of Jupiter’s inhabitants less dense than ours, are they formed by compact

and condensed or airy matter?
- Compact to us but not to you. It is less condensed.

36.Is the body impenetrable, considering that it is made of matter? - Yes.

37.Do the inhabitants have, like us, an articulated language? - No. There is communication through thought among them.

38.Is the second sight, as we were informed, a normal faculty which stays among you? - Yes. The spirits do not have hindrance. Nothing is hidden from them.

39.If nothing is hidden to the spirits do they know the future? (We refer to the spirits incarnated in Jupiter).

- The knowledge about the future depends on the degree of perfection of the spirit: this has less inconvenient to us than to you; it is even necessary to us, up to a certain degree, for the accomplishment of the missions we are given. But to say that we know the future without restrictions would be the same as to level us to God.

40.Can you reveal to us everything you know about the future? - No. Wait until you have deserved to know it.

41.Do you communicate with the other spirits, more easily than us? - Yes, always. There is no longer matter between them and us.

42.Does death inspire the same horror and fear as with us?

- Why would it be frightening? Among us evil no longer exists. Only evil fears the last moment. It fears its judge.

43.What do the inhabitants of Jupiter become after death?
- Always growing towards perfection, without going through more trials.

44.Wouldn’t there be on Jupiter spirits who submit themselves to trials in order to accomplish a mission?

- Yes but it is not a trial. Only the love of good takes them to the suffering. 45.Can they fail in their missions?

- No because they are good. There is weakness only where there are defects.
46.Could you name a few spirits, inhabitants of Jupiter, who have accomplished a great mission on Earth?

- St. Louis.

47.Couldn’t you name others?
- Why does it matter? There are unknown missions whose objective is the happiness of only

one. At times, these are the greatest and most painful ones. About the Animals

48.Is the body of the animals more material than that of men? - Yes. Man is king, the god of the planet.

49.Are there carnivorous animals?
- The animals do not shred mutually. They all live submitted to man and love one another.

50.Are there, however, animals which escape the control of man, like the insects, fishes and birds?

- No. They are all useful to man.
51.We were told that the animals are the workers and the foremen who execute the material

tasks, build the houses, etc. Is that exact?
- Yes. Man no longer lowers to serve his neighbor.

52.Are the animal servers connected to one person or a family or are they taken and exchanged at will, like here?

- They are all associated to a particular family. You change them looking for the best.


53.Do the serving animals live in slavery or in the state of freedom? Are they a property or can they change their masters, at will?

- They are in the state of submission.
54.Do the serving animals receive any compensation for their work?

- No.
55.Are the faculties of the animals developed by some sort of education?

- They develop by themselves.
56.Do the animals have a more precise and characteristic language than those of the Earthly

animals?
- Certainly.


Moral State of the Inhabitants


57.The dwellings you gave us as a sample in your drawings, are they arranged in cities like here?

- Yes. Those who love one another come together. Only the passions may establish solitude around man. If the evil man looks for his neighbor, who is an instrument of pain, why would a pure and virtuous man run away from his brother?

58.The spirits are the same or of several degrees?

- Several degrees but of the same order.

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59.We ask you to refer to the spirits’ scale we provided in the second number of the Review and tell us to which order those spirits incarnated in Jupiter belong.

- All good, all superior. Sometimes good comes down to the evil but the evil can never blend with the good.

60.Do the inhabitants form different peoples, like here on Earth? - Yes, but all united by the bonds of love.

61.Thus, the wars are unknown? - Useless question.

62.Will man on Earth be able to arrive to such a degree of perfection, so that war would be unnecessary?

- He will arrive to that, no doubt. The war will disappear with the egotism of the peoples, at the same time as fraternity becomes better understood.

63.Are the peoples governed by rulers? - Yes.

64.What is the consistency of the ruler’s authority? - His superior degree of perfection.

65.What is the meaning of the superiority and inferiority of the spirits in Jupiter, considering that they are all good?

- They have a greater or smaller sum of knowledge and experience; they become free of impurities as they enlighten.

66.Similarly to Earth, are there more advanced peoples than others in Jupiter? - No, but among the peoples there are several degrees.

67.If the most advanced people from Earth were transported to Jupiter which position would they occupy?

- The one occupied by the monkeys among you. 68.Are the peoples ruled by laws?

- Yes.
69.Are there criminal laws?

- There is no more crime. 70.Who makes the laws?

- God made them.
71.Is there rich and poor? In other words, are there men who live in abundance and others

who lack the necessary?

- No. They are all brothers. If one had more than the other the former would share with the latter; he would not be happy when his brother was in need.

72.According to this all fortunes would be the same?

- I did not say that all are equally rich. You asked if there would be people with the superfluous while others would lack the necessary.

73.The two answers seem contradictory to us. We ask you to establish the agreement.

- Nobody lacks the necessary; nobody has the superfluous. In other words, each person’s fortune is related to their condition. Are you happy?

74.We understand now. But we asked, however, if the one who has less is unhappy with respect to the one that has more?

- He cannot feel unhappy if he is neither jealous nor envious. Envy and jealousy produce more unhappiness than misery.

75.What is the consistency of wealth in Jupiter? - Why does it matter to you?

76.Are there social inequalities? - Yes.

77.What are they founded in?

- In the laws of society. Some are more advanced than others in perfection. The superior have a kind of authority over the others, like the father over the children.

78.Are men’s faculties developed by education? - Yes.

79.Can man acquire enough perfection on Earth to deserve to immediately pass to Jupiter?
- Yes, but man is submitted to imperfections on Earth in order to be related to his neighbors.

80.When a spirit leaves Earth and must reincarnate in Jupiter, does he remain errant for some time, until he finds the body to which he should unite?

- Remains errant for some time until he frees himself from the Earthly imperfections. 81.Are there multiple religions?

- No. All profess the good and all adore one only God. 82.Are there temples and a cult?

- By temple there is the man’s heart; by cult, the good he does.

Family conversations from beyond the grave - Mehemet-Ali, former Pasha of Egypt March 16th, 1858

- No. I actually wish to answer those questions intended to instruct you.
3. Which proofs can we have of your identity? How can we know that it is not another

spirit who took your name?
- What would be the advantage?

4. We know from experience that inferior spirits, many times, use hypothetical names. That is why we have addressed you with that question.

- They also take the elements of proof. But the spirit who wears a mask also reveals himself by his own words.

5. Under which form and in which place are you among us?
- Under that of Mehemet-Ali. Near Ermance.

6. Would you like us to give you a special place? - Yes. The empty chair.

Note: there was an empty chair that nobody had noticed.
7. Do you have a clear memory of your last corporeal existence?
- It is not clear since death has left some anxiety and lack of clarity.

8. Are you happy?
– No. I am unfortunate.

9. Are you errant or reincarnated? - Errant.

10. Do you remember what you were before the last existence on Earth?
- I was poor on Earth. I was the envy of Earthly greatnesses and was moved up to suffer.

11. If you can be reborn on Earth, which position will you preferably choose?
- The obscure: the duties are lesser.
12. What do you think now about the position you have lately occupied on Earth?
- Pure vanity! I wanted to command men. Did I know how to command myself?

13. It was said that your reason was altered for some time already. Was it true?
- No.

14. Public opinion appreciates what you have done for the Egyptian civilization and places you among the great princes. Does it make you happy?

- Why would I care? Men’s opinion is like the wind in the desert blowing the dust.
15. Are you satisfied that your decendents are following the same path you did? Do their

efforts interest you?
- Yes, as their objective is a benefit of all.

16. However, you are accused of acts of great cruelty. Do you regret them now?
- I atone for them.

17. Do you see those who you ordered to be massacred?
- Yes.

18. Which feelings do they experience towards you?
- Hatred and pity.

19. Since you left this life have you ever seen Sultan Mahmud again?
- Yes. We run away from each other in vain.

20. Which mutual feeling do you experience? - Aversion.

21. What is your opinion about the penalties and rewards that await us after death?
- The atonement is fair.

22. What was the greatest hurdle you had to overcome to continue to progress towards your spiritual development?

- I reigned over slaves.
23. Do you think that if the people you governed were Christian it would have facilitated their advancement?
- Yes. The Christian religion elevates the soul. Mohamed’s religion only speaks to matter. 24. When alive, was your faith in the Muslim religion absolute?

- No. I considered God greater.

25. What do you think now about that religion?
- It does not form men.

26. In your opinion, had Mohamed a Divine mission? - Yes but he misinterpreted that
27. How did he misinterpret that?
- He wanted to reign.

28. What do you think about Jesus? - That he came from God.

29. In your opinion who did more for human happiness: Jesus or Mohamed?

- Why do you ask this? Which people were regenerated by Mohamed? Christian religion was pure since leaving God’s hands. Mohamed’s religion is the work of a man.

30. Do you believe that one of these two religions is destined to disappear from Earth?
- Man always progresses. The best will remain.

31. What do you think about the polygamy in the Muslim religion?
- It is one of the links to barbarism for those who profess it.

32. Do you believe that women slavery is in accordance with God’s wishes?
- No. Woman and man are the same since the spirit has no sex.

33. Some say that the Arabs can be conducted only by the rigor. Don’t you think that treating them badly instead of submitting them can only make them brutal?

- Yes. That is man’s destiny. He is degraded when enslaved.
34. Can you go back in time and tell us, when Egypt was flourishing, what were the causes

of the moral decadence?
- The corruption of the customs.

35. It seems that you do not give much importance to the monuments which cover the soil of Egypt. We cannot understand such indifference from a prince who was a friend of progress.

- Who cares about the past? The present would not replace it. 36. Can you explain yourself more clearly?

- Yes. It was unnecessary to remind the oppressed Egyptian of a brilliant past, as he would not understand it. I showed disdain for something that seemed useless to me. Couldn’t I be wrong?

37. Did the priests of the old Egypt know the Spiritist Doctrine?

- It was theirs.
38. Did they receive manifestations?

- Yes.
39. Did the manifestations received by the Egyptian priests have the same source as those

received by Moses?
- Yes. He was initiated by them.

40. Why then did the manifestations received by Moses were more powerful than those received by the priests?

- Moses wanted to reveal them whereas the priests wanted to hide them.

41. Do you think that the doctrine of the Egyptian priests had some connection with that of the Indians?

- Yes. All mother-religions are interconnected by almost invisible ties. They proceed from the same source.

42. From those two religions, the Egyptian and the Indian, which one is the original?
- They are sisters.

43. How can you who in life were so few are educated on these subjects, respond with such a depth now?

- Other existences taught me.
44. In the erratic state in which you are now, do you have complete knowledge of your previous existences?
- Yes, except the last one.

45. Have you then lived in the times of the pharos?
- Yes. I lived in the Egyptian land three times: as a priest, as a beggar, and as a prince.

46. Under which dynasty were you a priest?
- It was long ago! The prince was your Sesostris.

47. Therefore it seems that you have not progressed since you still expiate the errors of your last existence.

- Yes but I progressed slowly. Would I be perfect just because I was a priest?

48. Is it because you were a priest over that time that you could speak to us with such inside knowledge about the old religion of the Egyptians?

- Yes but I am not sufficiently perfect to know everything. Others can read the past like from an open book.

49. Can you explain to us the motive for the construction of the pyramids?
- It is too late.

Note: It was almost eleven o’clock in the evening.
50. We shall not ask you anything else but this. We kindly ask you to answer.

- No. It is too late. This question would bring others.

51. Can you do us a favor and respond on a different occasion?

- I cannot commit to that.

52. Nevertheless we thank the benevolence with which you responded to the other questions.
- It is fine. I will come back.