Paris, August 16
th, 1864 – medium Mrs. Delanne
Pierre Legay was a bit greedy and rich farmer that died two years ago, a relative of Mrs. Delanne. He was known in the region by the nickname of Great Pierrot. The communication below shows us one of the most interesting aspects of the invisible world and that is of the Spirits that believe to be still alive. It was obtained by Mrs. Delanne that transmitted it to the Parisian Society. The Spirit expresses himself exactly as he did when alive; the very triviality of the language is a proof of identity. We had to suppress some rude expressions that were familiar to him.
Mrs. Delanne says:
“For some time we heard some knocks around us. Supposing that it could be a Spirit we asked for the identification. The Spirit soon wrote: Pierre Legay, known as the Great Pierrot.
1. There you are then in Paris, Great Pierrot; you wanted so much to come here! A. – I am here, dear friend; I came because she came without me. I had asked her to tell me though but here I am… I was upset because nobody paid any attention to me.
Observation: The Spirit refers to Mrs. Delanne’s mother that had come to live in Paris some time ago, in the house of her daughter. He calls her by a name that was used in their privacy here replaced by her.
2. Is that you knocking at night? A. – Where did you want me to go? I go not lie down at the door.
3. Are you sleeping in our house then? A. – Certainly. Yesterday I went out with you watching the illumination. I saw everything. Ah that is so nice! Very good. We can say that they did a nice job. I can assure you that I am very happy with that; I do not regret the money I spent.
4. How did you come to Paris? Were you able to leave your lands then? A. – Drat! I cannot excavate and be here. I am very happy for having come. You asked me how I came but I came by train.
5. Who did you come with? A. – Well, I give my word that I did not know them.
6. Who gave you my address? Tell me also why you liked me. A. – When I went to her house (Mrs. Delanne’s mother) and did not find her I asked the policeman where she was. He told me that she was here and I then came. Besides, my friend, I like you because you are a good man. I like your company, you are frank and I like all these kids.
7. Tell me the name of the person that is taking care of my mother-in-law’s house for she has the keys in her pocket. A. – Who I met there? I met father Colbert that told me that she had asked him to watch it.
8. Do you see my father-in-law here, father Didelot? A. – How do you want me to see him? You know well that he is dead.
2nd Conversation, August 18th, 1864
Mr. and Mrs. Delanne went to Chatillon to spend the day and there evoked Pierre Legay
9. Have you come to Chatillon? A. – But I always follow you.
10. How did you come here? – A. You are funny. I came on the chariot.
11. I did not see you buying the ticket. A. – I went there with Mariana and later with your wife. I thought you had paid. I was upstairs. Nobody asked me for anything. Haven’t you paid? Why the conductor did not complain?
12. How much did you pay on the train between Ligny and Paris? A. – The railroad was not the same thing. I walked from Tréveray to Ligny and then I took a bus that obviously was paid to the driver.
13. Was it really the driver that you paid? A. – Who did you want me to have paid? But cousin do you think that I don’t have money? I had separated the money to come here long ago. You should not think that I don’t have money for not having paid for the ticket to come here. Without that I would not have come.
14. But you did not respond how much you spent on the railroad from Nançois-le-Petit to Paris. A. – But b… I paid like the others. I gave 20 francs and got 3.6 francs back. Do the math.
Observation: The amount 16.4 francs is really what shows on the sign post, something that was ignored by Mr. and Mrs. Delanne!
15. How long did it take you to travel from Nançois-le-Petit to Paris? A. – The same time as the others. They did not speed up the locomotive for me more than to the others. In fact I could not complain of the time; I had never traveled by train and thought that Paris was much further away. I am no longer surprised that this b… (Mr. D… mother-in-law) comes here so many times. My word that this is good and I am happy to be able to talk to you. The only problem is that many times you do not respond. I understand. You are worried with your business. Yesterday I dared not go there with you in the morning (Mr. D… commercial place of work) and decided to visit the cemetery of Montmartre, I believe; isn’t that the way you call it? You must tell me the names so that I can count them next time (Mr. and Mrs. Delanne, in fact, had visited the cemetery in the morning).
16. Since you have nothing that keeps you here do you want to return soon? A. – After seeing everything since this is why I am here. Besides, they can well get by (the children); they will do as they please. When I am no longer here they will have to go without me. What do you say, cousin?
17. How about the wine and food in Paris? A. – But it does not compare to the wine I made you drink (the Spirit refers to a time when he had Mr. D… drinking a wine bottled twenty years ago); it is not bad though. The food to me is the same. Sometimes I ask for some bread and eat by your side. I don’t like to get the plates dirty. It is not hard when you are used to it. Why ceremony, right?
18. Where are you sleeping? I did not see your bed. A. – When I got here Mariana went to a dark room; I thought it was mine and lied down there. I said that several times to everyone.
19. Aren’t you afraid of being smashed in the streets of Paris, given your age? A. – Well, cousin, that is what upsets me the most, those crazy cars; I never stay away from the sidewalks, though.
20. For how long have you been in Paris? A. – Well, let us see, you know I arrived here last Thursday. It seems 8 days now.
21. Since I did not see your luggage let me know if you need white clothes. A. – I got two shirts and that is enough; when they are dirty I will do something; don’t want to trouble you.
22. Could you tell us what father Colbert told you before your departure to Paris? A. – He is in Mariana’s place. He has been there for a long time. After the sale he wanted to stay there. He said he is not bothered because he takes care of that.
23. Yesterday you said that you had not seen my father-in-law Dedelot because he was dead. How come you see father Colbert so well since he has been dead for at least thirty years also? A. – Well, in reality you ask me what I don’t know. I had not thought of that. It is certain that he is calm but I cannot say anything beyond that.
Observation: Father Colbert is the former owner of the house of Mrs. Delanne’s mother. It seems that he remained in his house since his death, like a guardian, and that he also believe to be alive. These two Spirits, therefore, Colbert and Pierre Legay, see one another and talk as if they were still in this world, both unaware of their situation.
Observation: The amount 16.4 francs is really what shows on the sign post, something that was ignored by Mr. and Mrs. Delanne!
Observation: Father Colbert is the former owner of the house of Mrs. Delanne’s mother. It seems that he remained in his house since his death, like a guardian, and that he also believe to be alive. These two Spirits, therefore, Colbert and Pierre Legay, see one another and talk as if they were still in this world, both unaware of their situation.
3
rd Conversation, August 19
th, 1864
24. (To the spiritual guide of the medium) – Kindly give us some instructions about the Spirit Legay and let us know if it is time to help him understand his true situation. A. – Yes my children, he was disturbed with yesterday’s questions; he does not realize what he is, everything is confusing now and he still does not invoke the protection of his guardian angel.
25. (To Legay) Are you here? A. – Yes, cousin, but I feel really strange; I don’t know what the meaning of all this is. Don’t go without me Mariana.
26. Have you given any thought to what we asked you yesterday about father Colbert that you saw alive when he is dead? A. – I cannot explain that to you. I just heard some time ago that there were apparitions. Believe me, I think he is one of those. Say what you will but I saw him. But I guarantee I am tired. I need to rest a bit.
27. Do you believe in God and do you do your daily prayers? A. – My word I do; if that does not do good it will not do harm.
28. Do you believe in the immortality of the soul? A. – Ah that is different. I cannot say anything. I doubt it.
29. If I gave you a proof of the immortality of the soul, would you believe? A. – Ah the Parisians know everything. I ask for no more. How can you do that?
30. (To the guide of the medium) Can we evoke father Colbert to demonstrate to him that he is dead? A. – There is no need to go so fast. Bring him smoothly. Besides, this other Spirit would get you really tired tonight.
31. (To Legay) Where are you placed that I cannot see you? A. – You don’t see me? Ah that is too much! Are you blind?
32. Explain how you talk to us because you are making my wife write. A. – Me? My word that I am not!
Several other questions were addressed to the Spirit but remained without answer. The Spirit of his guardian angel was evoked and one of the medium’s guide responded the following:
“My friends, it is me that come to answer because the guardian angel of the poor Spirit is not with him for he will come when he is called and the help of the Lord is requested to give him light. He was still under the domination of matter and did not want to hear the voice of his guardian angel that had moved away since he was adamant in remaining stationary. In reality it was not him that was making you write. He spoke as usual persuaded that you would understand but it was his familiar Spirit that led your hand. From his point of view you wrote while he spoke with your husband and that seemed natural to him. But you last questions and your thoughts led him to Tréveray; he got disturbed; pray for him and evoke him later. He will return right away. Pray for him. We will pray together with you.”
We have seen more than one example of Spirits that believe to be alive. Pierre Legay shows us that phase of the life of the Spirits in a very characteristic way. It seems that those in similar situation are in a much larger number than suspected; instead of being an exception, of presenting us with a variety of punishment, this seems to be almost a rule to Spirits of a certain category. We therefore have around us not only the Spirits that are aware of the spiritual life but also a number of others that in a way live a semi-material life, still believing to be in this world, continuing to wander around or involved with their earthly occupations.
Nonetheless it would be a mistake to compare them to the incarnate in everything because one can notice in their attitudes and ideas something vague and fuzzy that is not proper of a corporeal life. It is an intermediary state that gives us the explanation of certain effects of spontaneous manifestations and certain old and modern beliefs.
A phenomenon that seems to be more original and that brings a smile to the lips of the nonbelievers is the supposed ownership of material objects by these Spirits. We can understand the fact that Pierre Legay is taking the train since this is something real that exists, but his belief in having money and having paid for the tickets is less understandable. This phenomenon finds explanation in the properties of the spiritual fluid and in the theory of the fluidic creations, an important principle that provides the key to many mysteries of the invisible world. Through their will or thoughts the Spirit acts upon the perispiritual fluid that is nothing more than a concentration of the cosmic fluid or the universal element; that leads to a partial transformation that produces the desired object. Such object is to us just an appearance but to the Spirit it is a reality. That is how a recently deceased person showed up in a Spiritist meeting to a clairvoyant medium with a pipe in his mouth, smoking. Responding to the observation made to him that it was not proper, he said: “What do you want? I am so much attached to the habit of smoking that I cannot go without the pipe.” Something even more singular was the fact that the pipe produced smoke to the eyes of the clairvoyant and not to the attendees. Everything in the spiritual world must be in harmony with the material world. To the physical persons material objects are necessary. The Spirit whose body is fluidic requires fluidic objects. Material objects would not serve them more than the fluidic objects would serve incarnate people. Feeling the need to smoke the smoking Spirit created a pipe that to him was as real as an earthly pipe. Legay needed money to pay for the tickets and through his thoughts he created the necessary amount. To him it was really money but incarnate people could not accept money from the Spirits. That is what explain the clothes that they wear at will, the several appearances that they may take, etc.
The healing properties given to the fluid by their will is also explained by that transformation. The modified fluid acts upon the perispirit that is its similar and that perispirits, intermediary between the material and spiritual principle, reacts upon the organization in which it represents an important role, although still unknown to science. There are, consequently, the corporeal and visible world with the material objects and the fluidic, invisible world to us, with the fluidic objects. We must point out that the Spirits of an inferior order and not much enlightened, operate such creations unnoticeably, not aware of how such effects are produced. They cannot understand it like an ignorant person on Earth cannot understand the mechanism of eye sight or a peasant cannot understand the growth of corn. The fluidic formations are linked by a general principle that will later on be an object of a complete development when it is sufficiently elaborated. The state of the Spirits in the situation of Pierre Legay raises several questions. To which category the Spirits that still believe to be alive belong? What is the cause of that? Is it due to a lack of moral and intellectual development? We see much inferior Spirits that are very aware of their state and the majority of those that we see in such situation are not the most delayed ones. Is it a punishment? To some it certainly is like Simon Louvet from The Hague, the suicide from the Tower of Francis I, that for five years lived the expectation of his fall (Spiritist Review, March 1863); but many others are not unhappy and do not suffer as witnessed by Pierre Legay (see the next dissertation as an answer).
